Shamanism & Your Shadow - Granddaughter Crow

This episode explores the fundamentals of shadow work and its connection to shamanism as a means of self-discovery and healing. We discuss the significance of addressing unresolved traumas, understanding shamanistic practices, and engaging in journey work, all while emphasizing that transformation often begins with the willingness to delve into our hidden selves. 
• Discovering shadow work through psychology and spirituality 
• Recognizing signs of readiness to explore one’s shadow 
• Understanding shamanism: cultural significance and misconceptions 
• Exploring the role of emotions like fear and anger in trauma 
• Journey work as a method for deeper reflection and insight 
• The medicine wheel: integrating the four directions and animal totems 
• Symbolism in the Year of the Snake and shedding old identities

Chapters

• 0:00 Exploring Shamanism and Shadow Work
• 10:12 Navigating Trauma and Emotions
• 23:24 Embracing Shadow Work Through Journeys

Transcript

Granddaughter Crow: 0:00

Welcome to Belief, Being and Beyond with your host, granddaughter Crow. Hi everybody, granddaughter Crow here for yet another episode of Belief, being and Beyond, and we love to go beyond, so we've got a special episode for you today. Do you remember that we had Stephanie Michelle on with her book that came out in 2024, chakras and Shadow Work? Let me introduce you once again Stefani Michelle. So Stephanie has been an intuitive healer her whole life, studying metaphysics and energy with her mother since the 80s not to give away, you're a Gen Xer, right. She enjoyed a career in education and obtained degrees in communication, sociology and leadership. I love that. She also became a Reiki master and interfaith minister in 1996. So recently she did become a yoga instructor and retired from the traditional education and became a healer and a coach Primal Heart Healing on all social media wwwprimalhearthealingcom. And remember to pick up Chakras and the Shadow Work in this episode. I'm going to turn it over to Stephanie to introduce our special guest that we go beyond with Stephanie. Take it away.

Stefani Michelle: 1:29

Thank you. Thank you for that wonderful introduction. We do have an amazing special guest today and her name is Granddaughter Crow. She is a medicine woman, public speaker, teacher, intuitive reader and author of Wisdom of the Natural World Descended from a long line of spiritual leaders. She's an empath medium and a member of the Navajo Nation. She was voted Woman of the Year in 2015 by the National Association of Professional Women and right now she is my woman of 2025. And this is her new book, shamanism and your Shadow, and it is a wonderful book and I'm honored to have written the back and there's a little bit that I wrote in the beginning as well. And today we are going to interview granddaughter Crow.

Granddaughter Crow: 2:23

What a fun thing. Thank you so much, stephanie, so I'm gonna turn it over to you I know, so I guess I start the interviewing.

Stefani Michelle: 2:32

I said that and then I was expecting you to say something, because that's what I'm used to. But yes, I do have a whole bunch of questions that I've prepared for you today, and the first one can you tell us how you discovered shadow work for yourself and how you came to understand the importance of doing shadow work?

Granddaughter Crow: 2:52

Oh, that's a beautiful question. So I would like to say that I discovered shadow work because of spirituality right, because this book is about shamanism and spirituality. But in truth I discovered shadow work by studying, you know, carl Jung and really getting into the psychology of it. I have a very hungry mind for philosophy and psychology and sociology and leadership, just like you. Communication, I'm not so sure, but I do it anyway. But I really discovered it when I was like just 20 in my 20s, reading whatever I could get my hands on, and I was like, ooh, this is taboo, I wonder what this is about. And I kind of got a little scared and I was like, but I kind of like this little scary feeling because maybe there's something important about me that I don't know.

Granddaughter Crow: 3:50

And during that point in my life I was trying to heal from a lot of trauma, from my family unit and all of the things that I was going through. So I was searching and grabbing for anything at that point that was just logical, that would help me, that I didn't have to pay for therapy. So I read about it and I'm like, oh, and when I started figuring it out I was like you mean, everybody has a shadow. Okay. Okay, maybe that's my shadow. Okay, maybe that's my shadow, but I didn't know how to do any shadow work at. Okay, maybe that's my shadow. Okay, maybe that's my shadow, but I didn't know how to do any shadow work at that point. And then I grew into knowing how to do shadow work, doing and continuing to do shadow work on myself, and then writing a shadow work book for the listeners.

Stefani Michelle: 4:41

So, yeah, yeah, I think that's so important. Two things that you mentioned that stuck out for me is one, that doing shadow work is scary and you have to be ready to look at that side of you, and two, it comes after the trauma work. That was important for me to recognize. You have to do the trauma work first and then the shadow work. Yeah, so that leads me into my next question how does someone know when they're ready to do shadow work?

Granddaughter Crow: 5:16

Well, because I'm spiritual, I'm like if you're listening to this and you saw this book, it's time to do shadow work. Because it's not, it's your shadow calling you. I like to think to myself that you know, we love to be able to go. Oh, my conscious side is making all these decisions when, in truth, our conscious and subconscious mind are always in play. It's just that we're only aware of the conscious and so maybe your subconscious mind drew you to this. If it sounds exciting or intriguing, pick up the book and you can read it and go not for me, but if there is something in you that goes, I'm curious. Or you just see it on a bookshelf and you pick it up and two years down the road you're like how did I come across this book? That's when it's time. So it's kind of organic and I really like to emphasize that your subconscious shadow.

Stefani Michelle: 6:17

the shadow is in the subconscious and maybe it is calling you because it has beauty to share with you and healing to share with you, so that you can experience a more whole life in and of yourself. I love that so much and you're so right On the spiritual side of things. It just calls you. It's like you'll see it everywhere Shadow work, shadow work, shadow work and you're like okay, I got to do it. I got to do it, okay. So let's go into a little bit more about what's in your book and talk to us about what shamanism is and how one may identify as a shaman. I feel like this is a very broadly misunderstood term.

Granddaughter Crow: 7:00

I do too, and not only is it misunderstood, because it sounds indigenous, native American to many, many people, which it is part, but it's not in whole and that is not where it originated from, and in this society we don't want to appropriate right. So it's a little bit like I don't. I, you know, I don't have any red blood in me. Well, everybody has red blood, but I don't have a red body, and so you know, I can't do this. But in truth, another reason why it's so complex is because there's so it's such a big blanket that skirts along so many different things. So I'll just start at the beginning. The term shamanism comes to us from, I believe, the Tungustic language way in Siberia, and it comes from us in different languages and etymology, which is all in the book and kind of talks about the wise one or the one who knows, or the one who knows. Now, in today's society, what we look at is shamanism as more of one who understands the concepts of animism. Animism is the concept that everything has a soul, to include the natural world, all animals, all plants, etc. There's other concepts that I share in the book about. You know, shamans are intermediaries between different worlds, be the worlds, the upper or lower world, be the world, the world of the plants and animals, and they are kind of intermediaries between the human race and the other worlds. And I get into the other worlds in the book a little bit more and so in this, another thing I'd like to talk about with shamanism is there is the traditional shamanism and the neo-shamanism. So traditional shamanism is more of a cultural thing which is more indigenous, which is global. You can be a European shaman practicing Norse mythology or Norse lore in Europe. You can be in China Maybe they don't call you a shaman, but you're that medicine person, that person who talks to the other worlds to bring balance into the human race. Neo-shamanism is more of a I'm going to do research and I love the natural world. I'm called to the natural world. Maybe in a past life I was indigenous and I want to remember that. And then you grab at little things like talking to a tree, understanding the concepts that I lay out in the book and kind of approaching things in the natural world. So one of the I think one of the bigger things between oh well, I'm a spiritualist and I'm a shaman Shamans tend to practice individually.

Granddaughter Crow: 10:12

They don't have a shamanistic coven, they don't have a shamanistic church, they don't have a shamanistic kindred. They're solo practitioners. They're solo practitioners and what they practice with is what I call the upper world, which is our guides and the divine, and and the construct of what I think of is like root chakra in the lower world, crown chakra in the upper world, kind of complementing your book Chakras and Shadow, and and then kind of figuring out how to take the wisdom from these places to find balance and to create a balance within the human race and how we are connected to the natural world. I think that's a little bit more that might shed a little bit more light on the shadow of the shaman so to speak.

Stefani Michelle: 11:19

I mean, yeah, that was beautiful. I learned so much from just what you said, and I think visually and so one of the points that stuck out for me just now is when you said the shaman is a spiritual practitioner. Because of that, you know like solo practice and then offering some healing to other people, but not like you said. There's no shaman coven book. I do want to ask you which I haven't written out what is your thoughts on somebody calling themselves a shaman? You know whether it's me or somebody else. What are, what are your thoughts on that?

Granddaughter Crow: 12:19

So I do actually approach that in the book as well. One of the things is is that I'm not going to tell you my approach initially. I'm going to tell you the worldview, approach and what you're going to find. If you decide to go into a metaphysical shop and say I'm a shaman, you're going to find people who honor that and respect that. You are also going to find a school of thought where, oh, I've been to school for shamanism and I was told that I can only be called a shamanic practitioner, that I cannot call myself shaman, but I can say that I practice shaman or I'm a shamanic practitioner. Now, I'm not here to tell you who you are or what you want to call yourself. I am very open. But here is my approach. If somebody comes up to me and says I am shaman, I will say coolio. If somebody comes up to me and says I'm a shamanic practitioner, blessed be on your path. You know, but the way that I see it is somebody asked me. This is funny.

Granddaughter Crow: 13:25

Here's a little quick story. I was invited to a lunch with all of these women that went to this school, and so I go to this lunch realizing it was a shamanistic school, and they go oh, granddaughter Crow, you're Navajo, are you a shaman? And I said, until they stop calling me that I guess I am meaning that if I don't behave like a shaman and the world doesn't recognize me as that, then I am resting on my laurels and I have given up that title and and then they're like where did you go to school? And I'm like in the underworld with my grandfather and they're like what does that mean? So basically, I learned it through my DNA, through my body and through my bloodline and through Google and through curiosity.

Granddaughter Crow: 14:25

Yeah, that's, that's kind of how I would approach it. But I really want to advise the listeners that you know, if you are called to, you know, and, honestly, if you're called to shamanistic practice, wait until you feel comfortable. The shamans will show you how to, when it is time to step forward, just like if you're a psychic, and you're like oh, I have a good gut check. Oh well, maybe I'll call myself intuitive, and then one day you say I'm a psychic. It's the same progression. Let spirit lead your spirit and your heart and your soul with that type of thing. But, yeah, it's, it's, yeah, it's pretty cool.

Stefani Michelle: 15:07

And it's a conversation that's out there, and I think that your information, your knowledge and your perspective is going to be so helpful for people who are struggling, who have one foot in and one foot out and are insecure about what is my title, what do I call myself. I mean, there's so much judgment really on our industry and I can't even say it's not without its reasons, you know. But again, your book is full of amazing information and I love it so much.

Granddaughter Crow: 15:42

So if you're enjoying the Belief, being and Beyond podcast and would like to support it, I'm on Patreon. Just go to Patreon Granddaughter Crow or you can find it at granddaughtercrowcom. Thank you so much.

Stefani Michelle: 15:57

Okay, so let's go to the next question that I prepared for you. Can you talk about trauma and how useful tools like anger and fear have become misused? Does that question make sense?

Granddaughter Crow: 16:17

Yeah, so talk about trauma and how anger and what.

Stefani Michelle: 16:23

Fear. So, in other words, what I was thinking when I wrote my question was based actually on a conversation you and I had and we were talking about, you know, fear has a useful energy to it, a useful vibe has a useful energy to it, a useful vibe. There's a reason why we have the emotion fear and there's a reason why we have the emotion anger. It keeps us safe, it keeps us on our toes. It can be placed in a positive direction, but when trauma comes in, it misdirects those emotions and so when doing the shadow work and working through that, how do you feel? How does that resonate with you? How do you fix that Kind of put fear and anger back in balance?

Granddaughter Crow: 17:07

Yeah Well, you know, one thing I would say is you can do this book solo, you can do this book in a book club and you can do this book with a counselor or a licensed practitioner, a certified therapist, because they will also help you on an individual path. What I would say in general is that you're right, fear and anger, like I'm afraid to touch a hot stove, that's healthy, right, that's healthy, right, that's healthy. But when trauma hits, that's when the amygdala in our brain, the fight, flight, freeze or fawn side of us, gets hot and we exit. It's almost like our consciousness exits our mind and we just it overrides our conscious mind and either we fight, flight, freeze or fawn. And the interesting thing is is that in that situation, in the initial situation, that is something that is the way to, that's a very survival technique.

Granddaughter Crow: 18:18

But when you have trauma that is prolonged or unhealed, does not complete its own cycle which I go through, I believe I go through the cycle of trauma in the book If it does not complete its own cycle or if it continues to happen over a prolonged period of time, then all of a sudden the term fear and anger become misplaced in our psyche where, all of a sudden any little trigger or remember reminder of what we experienced, even if it's like a man in a red hat, and all of a sudden we're fighting and angry and frayed. That's when it becomes kind of like misdirected and in doing trauma work it's kind of goes hand in hand with shadow work, right, and it's kind of like when you understand the initial and are able to take those sensations and assign them to the initial trauma and relieve yourself so that you release those triggers, then you're not walking around with fear and anger because somebody wore a red hat.

Stefani Michelle: 19:29

You know what I mean? Yes, I do, and I think that's so important for people to hear because a lot of times we don't realize. You know, there's this famous line in Steel Magnolias where the character I can't remember her name, but she was my favorite and she was the cranky old lady and she said I've just been in a very bad mood for 40 years and people don't realize that that character, that personality trait, is a result sometimes of our shadow work, unresolved shadow work, unresolved traumas. You know, we've just now become cranky in our lives instead of in balance with our lives, and I think it's just really important to understand that dynamic, that fear and anger are part of who we are on a primal level, and we just need to put it back into balance, you know. And of course there's other emotions too, but that's exactly right.

Granddaughter Crow: 20:29

Put it back where it belongs, so that it doesn't leak out in, like I like to say, it doesn't come out sideways, it doesn't leak out into your love life because your partner decided to put on a red hat and now you're mad at them and they don't know why, and it ruins your relationship. That's why you do trauma resolution and shadow work, so that you can remain in balance and figure yourself out and put yourself back. Yeah, align it all and then being afraid and being angry is primal and as long as it is directed to, as long as it's reflectant of exactly what you're going through a lot you know at the time that you're going through it. But what happens is, if we have unresolved with the red hat scenario, then all of a sudden, anybody that wears a red hat is going to figure out that you are cranky and they don't want anything to do with you and then you lose. Talk about the psychology and the shamanism.

Stefani Michelle: 21:40

And it's just such a well-written, beautifully balanced book. On both of those things, yeah, I just really love it. So let's see, I'm going to skip the next question because we covered it One of the many things that got me excited about your book was journey work. Oh, yeah, I love this. I think it's so important. Can you tell us about journey work? Because that that I was really excited about that when I read your book.

Granddaughter Crow: 22:12

Absolutely so. People call this many different things shamanism, and I just kind of wanted to say, although I am of the Navajo Nation, traditional Navajos do not call themselves shaman, traditional, but yet I would identify them as shaman by the definition that we have globally. They call themselves medicine people, they call themselves hand tremblers, they call themselves medicine people, they call themselves hand tremblers, they call themselves singers, and so if you go traditional, there are a lot of different terms and so that's why I go, I'm a shaman slash, medicine woman, you know, because it's. I just wanted to kind of translate it to everybody.

Granddaughter Crow: 22:57

So yeah, thank you for that, yeah, in the terminology of shamanism we call it journey work and but other other faiths, spiritual groups, would call it probably guided meditations or trans work, if you will, and I do talk about how to do that trans work, if you will, and I do talk about how to do that. But basically it's going into a quiet space and breathing and I walk you through this in the book and going through a guided meditation or a guided journey and I take me and my husband and I'll be honest, my husband wrote all of the journeys. Jeffrey Gray he is also true Norse sworn to Odin, dark poet he's the one that wrote and wrote this book with me. So he wrote these what we call ingresses or journeys or guided meditations, and it takes you through this. It's almost like if you're a kid and you're listening to, oh, you know, little Red Riding Hood walk down this road and then she entered the forest and then she found this and then she found that it's that basic.

Granddaughter Crow: 24:13

And yet when you're going through that, you can pay attention to what else you see. And then, after you come out of that storytelling journey work, there's journal prompts, and so you can kind of say this is what I saw. This is what they told me, this is what, additionally, this is what time of day da, da, da, da, da da. And it kind of digs deeper into what your shadow, through the lens of the story or the journey, has to share with you. So pick up a journal. If you're buying this as a gift for somebody, buy them a journal as well, because you'll get really in depth if you do it with a journal.

Stefani Michelle: 24:52

So, yes, yeah, I loved that so much. Yeah, I loved that so much. Similar to my book, I have the word guided meditations and each chapter provides a meditation with questions and all this stuff. But when I read it in your book the word journey work I just I felt that in my heart and I was like, oh, my God, that is such a beautiful saying. It's exactly what guided meditations are. And I was like, can I just eat that word, Can I eat that phrasing? It's just, for some reason, it filled my heart with so much love. Just seeing it put in that way and the words that you guys used for that, for that journey work, was just so beautiful. I loved it so much. So thank you for you and your husband for sharing those with us, because they were so amazing. Okay, so your work with the four directions and four animal totems Can you tell us a little bit about that? The four directions and the animal totems? Absolutely.

Granddaughter Crow: 25:57

So, in short, the first part of the book goes into the first half of our conversation about trauma, what is shamanism, what you know, all of that.

Granddaughter Crow: 26:08

The second part is what we're digging into and it literally is with this journey work. And so in the book Shamanism and your Shadow, we literally work with the medicine wheel which basically is that circle around you with the four parts. So you've got the four directions, you've got the four times of day, and in talking or thinking about the four directions and the four times of day four directions and the four times of day If you sit with that for a moment, all of our bodies know what the four directions are, even if we say them differently around the globe. And we know the four times of day, even if we have different terms or uses for those times. So in such as you're doing this journey, you're embodying the spirit of what you already know to be morning and east, what you already know to be noon and south, what you already know to be evening and west, what you already know to be north and night. So it kind of gives you a little bit of a familiarity. And in such so do the animals. So we picked up the top four taboo animals, shadow animals, the one that the shadow has a taboo rap, and so do these taboo animals, but we love them, we love them, we love them.

Granddaughter Crow: 27:33

So in each of these four directions you will be met in the journey by a different animal a raven, a snake, an owl and a wolf. And in such they do different things and they help you along this journey. So, for example, you can't, I'm not going to expect anybody because I'm not going to do it go. I'm going to get my. I'm going to go into guided meditation and find my shadow and then go down there and be like, oh hello, shadow, I'm really scared of you and run away.

Granddaughter Crow: 28:12

You know, but it but in in this book, the raven helps you to approach your shadow, the snake helps you to recognize it, the owl helps you to understand it, because you can't connect with your shadow unless you understand it, like where did it come from? Did it come from some of my trauma, et cetera. And then the wolf helps you to accept and embrace it. So, working with and that's the shamanistic part, working with the natural world and the directions, with the day, the night, these four animals and, I think, a couple of other things I throw in there that are very shamanistic, really help a person to embody it and make it their own with their own understanding of what does the morning mean? What does a raven mean? What does that talk to me about? Because these are. We put English words around these things that our body and our subconscious is experiencing. So let's use these English words, but in the journaling it helps us to flesh out what's other symbologies that's coming through when I look at the morning and the raven in the east.

Stefani Michelle: 29:36

I love that so much and I'd like to share a story with you that happens to me after I read your book. So I have been working with the circle since I was 15. I met a woman. I believe her name was Lorraine Grayhawk, but I was 15 and I am far, far from 15, but I believe that was her name and she gave me a name. My name was little Raven. I am yeah. So as I was growing up, I had my own spirit name from her, little Raven, and she taught me how to use the circle.

Stefani Michelle: 30:14

And then, years later, I was gifted a meditation and that's in my book the Medicine Wheel, but it's called the Rose Garden, but it's set up in the four spaces. But after I read your book. So what happens to me with journeying I love that so much now is, I will just go into deep meditation. I have one song it's an album actually that I put on that triggers that, you know, deep state for me, and then spirit just gives me what I need, Right. And so after I read your book, it was like boom, I just went into it and I went into the medicine wheel and I walked from the east right into the center and a lot of times I will be in the center.

Stefani Michelle: 31:00

Sometimes I have journeys, I have to go to the south or the east or the north, but this time I went right to the center and the light just came down on me and it was just like beam me up, Scotty.

Stefani Michelle: 31:13

It was beautiful and I felt so vibrant and I was wearing all white and what spirit had me do was look to the east and I saw a version of myself. And then they had me look to the south and I saw a different version of myself. And then they had me look to the west and I saw another version. And then look to the north and each version she was wearing white and each version she was wearing white and each version she had the animal totem with her and each version was a different strength of who I am. I know you're going to make me cry. And then, before it ended, all four of them they didn't come to me, they looked at me and they all just smiled at me and it was just like each version was just beaming their heart at me and it was the most beautiful gift I have ever received.

Granddaughter Crow: 32:12

And that's why I wrote the book right there. Girl, for those of you who want to watch Granddaughter Crow Cry, jump over to the YouTube channel. If you're listening to this on the podcast, go to Granddaughter Crow YouTube channel, Because that is the reason why this book is here is for that. It's not for somebody to be ashamed or blame or judge. It's for somebody to find empowerment and to understand who they truly are and that a lot of their gifts have been hidden or covered up due to whatever reason. And if you go through this process, it is so rewarding. Stephanie, thank you.

Stefani Michelle: 32:59

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I never could have seen those versions of myself without doing all of this work, without doing meeting you and making this connection. It's just everything happens exactly the way it's supposed to happen and it's beautiful. And before we wrap this up, I do. We're in the year of the snake and that is one of your totems that you talk about. So what do you think about that? How important is the year of the snake and what we're doing, with shadow work and your book being out right now? I mean, to me it's not an accident. To me it's so poetic and so beautiful.

Granddaughter Crow: 33:47

You know, to me it's not an accident, it is poetic and beautiful, but it wasn't coming from me, that was all spirit. That was all spirit. That was all spirit. So, you know, I find that very, very beautiful and hail to the spirit of the snake. You know, in this climate 2025, usa, enough said the snake really shows us how to recognize. In the book, it shows us how to recognize and through the meditation, you understand that the snake needs to shed its skin right and before it sheds its skin, it becomes blind, it cannot see. So, if you feel blind and if you feel that you cannot see, this is the year to shed the old identity and to step into the new identity new invigoration, new life and a new rattle, new tools. It's like the ever unfolding lotus. It's your next level. So that's. I know, I was surprised at that, but, yeah, so you might be feeling blind and discombobulated walking into 2025, the year of the snake. That's okay. The snake does too. All we need that is perfect, yeah is shed.

Stefani Michelle: 35:26

Shed. I did not realize that the snake is blind in the beginning and that makes so much sense. That connection that you just made was huge for me because I've been telling my clients since the end of December, maybe middle of December like listen, we can't make these predictions right now, and it's funny for me to say that as a psychic, but it's it. That's. The psychic part is that you're supposed to not be worried about the predictions or we're not supposed to see it. So that was a huge, huge connection for me and makes a lot of sense.

Granddaughter Crow: 36:13

And everything is happening just the way it's supposed to be, even though we don't really understand it. That's the beauty of shamanistic work is that you know you can go to a psychic and they can tell you because they know and they see and they understand, and they're like we won't see it until later on. And then you go to a shaman and they go oh, we're in the snake and it needs to shed its skin, so it's blind. Oh, my body understands that the natural world just reflected that wisdom and so that's the.

Granddaughter Crow: 36:46

That, I think, is so like go to the, go to see stephanie, and if she says something and you're like I don't really understand, say ask granddaughter crow for an animal, she'll be the oh that. And you're like I don't really understand, say ask granddaughter crow for an animal, she'll be the oh that. Oh, you're talking about the opossum.

Stefani Michelle: 37:00

Oh, you're talking about it's such a great balance. I love that so much, and that's, that's the beauty of this, is it really just? It's, you know, the cosmic world and the natural world, like you said, just coming together and singing its beautiful song.

Granddaughter Crow: 37:19

We're saying the same thing in different ways because different people understand things in different ways. Yeah, yeah.

Stefani Michelle: 37:27

I thank you so much for allowing me to have this opportunity to interview you. I hope I did it justice. I, you know, had to read my little teleprompter over here and your book is amazing and everyone should buy it, and I am so honored to be part of this journey with you.

Granddaughter Crow: 37:45

Stephanie, thank you. You did more than awesome. You made me cry, girl. You made me cry Also. Pick up to compliment it. Chakras and the shadow work by Stephanie Michelle also out shout out to Lou Ellen worldwide, who published these books. Her book came out in 2024, mine just came out February 2020 25. Stephanie and I are going to be doing some shadow talk on this channel, so tune in and please feel. If you want, you can text the show. If you are listening to this on a podcast, just scroll down, text the show. Ask us a question, the harder the better, whatever you want. Otherwise, if you got this on YouTube, like subscribe and share as well as comment, we will continue to comment. We are going through a series that we're going to be doing of talking about the shadow from different points of view and then ending out with a live on YouTube. So stay tuned and thank you very much. We love you listeners and we see you on the flippity flip.