Shadow Talk - Approach via Chakras and/or Shamanism

This enlightening discussion focuses on using chakras and/or Shamanism as a guiding framework for shadow work, emphasizing the importance of emotional embodiment. Hosts Granddaughter Crow, Stefani Michelle, and Jeffrey Gray share personal experiences and transformative tools for inner healing.

• Explanation of the seven chakras and their emotional significance 
• Personal stories showcasing feelings related to each chakra 
• Discussion on shamanistic approaches and the role of animal spirits 
• Importance of physical sensations as a gateway to shadow work 
• Transformative exercises to guide listeners in their journey 
• Encouragement toward continued exploration of shadow work 

Do you want to dive deeper into your own shadow work journey? Explore resources and consider reading our books for more insight. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction and Overview

Transcript

Granddaughter Crow : 0:00

Welcome to Belief, being and Beyond with your host, granddaughter Crow. Hi everybody, granddaughter Crow here with yet another episode of Belief, being and Beyond Shadow Talk Series. Oh, my goodness, we've been having, I wouldn't say, a fun time, but I would say a very enlightened time of bringing this information to you. So today we Stefani Michelle, who wrote Chakras and Shadow Work, and then Jeffrey Gray, my beloved husband, who wrote all of the Ingresses, portal Journey work in Shamanism and your Shadow, and I am Granddaughter Crow, host of Belief, being and Beyond, as well as author of Shamanism and your Shadow. Nevertheless, quick run through, guys. So I interviewed Stephanie Michelle on her book. She interviewed Granddaughter Crow on my book. She interviewed Granddaughter Crow on my book. Then we had a talk with Jeffrey Gray included, where we talked about, like, our personal experience with the shadow, and then last time, we talked about ancestors, dna, again, like, delving deeper into where places the shadow might come from, even your female body or the female aspects.

Granddaughter Crow : 1:23

Today we're going to go one step deeper and we'll talk a little bit more about like why Stefani decide to go through the model of chakras in order to do shadow work? Why did Granddaughter Crow and Jeffrey Gray decide to go through shamanism and animals in order to go through shadow work, and so with this I mean, there's so many ways that you can do shadow work, even non-spiritual ways. You can just go to a psychologist and do shadow work, or on your own, but we chose these certain ways for certain reasons and today we're going to get into them. So let's go ahead and kick it off. Stephanie, I love the chakras. I have, like I understand the chakras, I've worked with the chakras, I've written about the chakras, I've studied the chakras, but I never thought to do shadow work from a chakra position. So could you give us a really quick overview of chakra and the seven sacral chakras and then talk to us about why did you decide to do shadow work from that?

Stefani Michelle: 2:37

perspective Right. So the chakras real quick snapshot, are the seven main energy centers of your body. You have a lot more, but the ones that I address in this book are the seven main, going from the root all the way up to the crown. If somebody's brand new at it, I explain just do the rainbow from root to crown and you'll land at the chakras. Roots to crown and you'll land at the chakras.

Stefani Michelle: 3:15

The reason why I chose to do it through the chakras is because I my first psychic ability is energy sensitivities. I growing up, of course, I've told the story a million times, being in the metaphysical world and psychic and all of that, but the intensity of it was being able to feel everything. I could feel your sadness, I could feel your anger, I could feel your chaos and it felt almost as if it was mine. I can feel the earth underneath my feet, I can feel my hair growing, I can feel when you know I'll do a psychic reading and I'll say, oh, it feels like this. And then later I'll call my mom, who's the astrologer, and she'll say that's exactly what the planets are doing. So I feel everything first and I feel it's almost like I'm walking through jello half the time.

Stefani Michelle: 4:09

And so, when I really started to dive into my own shadow work well, let me actually interject that where I was going and tell you that in my own body, I feel my emotions more than I know my emotions. So I feel anxiety in my stomach, I feel anger in my solar plexus. I can feel when my heart breaks. It literally feels, physically feels like I'm having a heart attack, like so. Everything for me is in the physical realm and I feel it. You know, I don't I had to tune in to hear the, the spirits, but I could feel them. I could feel them. I could feel them as if they were touching me, blowing on me. They're all around me, everything.

Stefani Michelle: 5:01

And then, you know, I learned to fine tune all of that. And then, you know, I learned to fine-tune all of that. So, with that said and with the body, when I really started to unravel my own shadow work and do my emotions, I would feel a physical sensation of that emotion, as if it was like a thought bubble coming from my heart and leaving. And then it gave me all this clarity. So I did it through the chakras, because that's how I navigate the world, that's how I move forward within the world, everything comes in feelings. It's a blessing and a curse, I say all the time because I have to wear socks, because I can feel every little thing on the ground. You know, there's just some things I'm extremely physically sensitive to. So it felt very natural, it was very easy for me to go through the chakras and it created so much clarity for me because that is my superpower. Superpower, shall I say, first, is the feeling part.

Granddaughter Crow : 6:09

I love that, because I love that you're expressing it as a feeling. Um, some people, you know if you understand the word empath, that's somewhat what she's talking about. But see, this is the beauty, is that you embody it. So I come from a school of thought where we have four bodies of existence the physical, the emotional, the mental and the spiritual. And you are absolutely right, the spiritual, mental and emotional does ultimately come through the physical body and we feel it and we don't know what words to put around it or anything like that. So it really is about that embodiment and I want to kind of go into, even I'll go ahead and tell you why we did shamanism, because it's along the same vein, but I'd really also I'm going to pose a question to you about, like, what does it feel like when you're approaching the shadow through each of the chakras?

Granddaughter Crow : 7:10

Because that was so important in your book. So we'll go there in a second. So, with Jeff and I, I mean a lot of it had to do with the same reason I'll give my spiel and then I'll let Jeff kind of tell you why we chose shamanism and animal spirits. He's like well, she's Navajo duh. No, I'm just kidding. What else are we supposed to do?

Stefani Michelle: 7:33

A logical conclusion. A logical conclusion.

Granddaughter Crow : 7:37

What else is she supposed to do? But it's the same type of thing of thing. It's the shadow work can be seen as so obscure that it's hard to even write sentences around it, let alone books, which we have done. But it's still very obscure, and so when an individual reader comes in to do read the books, to me it allows them to identify and feel like, oh, I feel too.

Granddaughter Crow : 8:10

I feel that too, and so in the shamanism and the shadow work, it really is about approaching your shadow in the morning, getting to you know, recognize it more at, getting to understand it more in the evening and to connect with it at night, because everybody knows, for the most part, what it feels like in the morning. It's a sensation. We all are familiar with animals. I mean every race, creed, religion, whatever. We all have animals and connections to animals, and because they make us sense something that is beyond words, animal spirits of the Raven in this book, the Raven and the snake, and the owl and the wolf it kind of opens up what their personal relationship might actually be with these. So it's kind of brings people a little bit closer to embodying this work and be familiarized with. This is the work. It's not so obscure that I can't feel it. So over to you, jeffrey Gray. Why did we approach the shadow from the shamanistic position, or animal position, or all of that?

Jeffrey Gray : 9:36

I think it's interesting because I think it goes hand in hand with what Stephanie was saying and what you just said about feeling it. Yeah, there's so much of it is felt and you know, like with your work, I was talking to the Raven the other day and I'm like what were the keywords for each chakra that I am Within each chakra?

Granddaughter Crow : 10:06

it has an action item, or this is what I do, I will, I can all of that, affirmations, or whatever you want to call them.

Jeffrey Gray : 10:13

That totally ties in with the physical attributes of doing work like this With the totem animals. It was, you know, we put, we go to each one of them is, it's very elemental. You know, the east, the morning. What we tried to get across was getting you as important as that shaman within you know that totem animal is that you're seeking. It's also important to know where you are right. So that had a lot to do with and you're exactly right, you've got to put down feelings. So that's what you know. I mean, that's what we were trying to do.

Jeffrey Gray : 11:07

You know this feels like this, physical feelings. This feels like this, this smells like this. You know it's the morning or you know it's the evening and I'm losing the light and I'm not a creature that sees well in the dark. Um, so I, you know that, and that's what the owl comes in to teach, to teach you. So, yeah, it is, um, it is all you know. You've got to feel it and, with that being said, that that individualizes the whole thing, because shadow work you can't, there's. No, you know this is point A. To point B, you know, to point C, that there's, there's not that path. It's such an individual path that you have to. You know, to point C, there's not that path.

Granddaughter Crow : 11:50

It's such an individual path that you have to you know, I think it's best for that person to physically feel it. I mean, that's what you remember, right, right, exactly, yeah, I agree, and to customize it accordingly. I love that, yeah, because it does. I mean, in the morning I'm going to feel a little bit different than you, absolutely. I feel like where's my coffee? Turn on my meditation music, light a candle and don't talk to me about anything political for at least two hours. Him, he jumps out of bed, looks at the runs outside, feeds the bird.

Granddaughter Crow : 12:20

You know, it's just like we're too, totally, but yet it's both the morning, right, you know it's just like we're too totally, but yet it's both the morning, so, more to that point, I really would love for you, for the people who have not yet picked up chakras and shadow work, give us a little bit of an overview around you. Step into this chakra and this is like how does each of them do the work? Like, how do you what? What exercises do you give?

Stefani Michelle: 12:54

and pick a chakra, eeny, meeny, miny, moe and let us know what that looks like. Okay, so I actually had a shadow moment on Sunday, and so I will give you that scenario. I was at brunch for a woman's 40th birthday and things were getting very tight, shall we say, and I felt it closing in on me. I felt the tightness and in my past behavior, I would have wanted to Tasmanian, devil my way out of that straitjacket and cause a scene and be in that moment. But what happened and it was a physical sensation is I felt a pull, and I felt a pull on my shirt and it was just leave, drive home, and I felt my ego fighting with the pull, and it was. I was being guided by my higher self to not do the patterns and the behaviors that I had done in the past.

Stefani Michelle: 14:05

And I let my feet just keep walking. As my ego or my shadow was trying to argue and trying to throw a temper tantrum, I leaned in to the greater force, the intuition that came. It was that easy, even though it wasn't easy. It was that cut right, cut and dry. It was that black and white, because I've done shadow work for a couple of years now.

Stefani Michelle: 14:30

But in the beginning, I had to sit with it and I had to find the reality and I had to feel. And so what I discovered is, when it's on the right, it is my intuition, it is spirit, it is God. When it is on the left, it is my ego, it is spirit, it is God. When it is on the left, it is my ego, it is my chaos, it is my old storytelling. So when I got home I had to sit down and process what it was that created the straitjacket that created me feeling all of that fear and created me feeling stuck, and I couldn't let it go. I couldn't just sit on TikTok or read a book or put on the TV. I had to actually process it in that moment, because that was a new pattern. If I had just ignored it and created a distraction, that would have been going back to my old pattern. And breaking those patterns and behaviors is the key, in my opinion, to doing shadow work. It's recognizing it in the moment and saying no, I am going to do and choose differently and I'm not going to stay on that same hamster wheel that I've always been on In the beginning.

Stefani Michelle: 15:40

It's much harder than it was Now. Sunday was not easy at all. It was, you know, the demon and the angel on your shoulder. But it was the first time I was very clear at like okay, I see you and I see you when. For the years prior it was like, oh my God, I feel it. I don't know which way to go. I don't know which way to go, but because I've done the journaling and I've done the yoga and I've taken all the tools and I've done the meditation and I've done the practice because it is a practice I can now clearly see what side is talking and which side I should follow.

Stefani Michelle: 16:17

I hope that answered the question it does.

Granddaughter Crow : 16:21

And I have to agree that the more that I pay attention to changing the patterns, listening to my shadow, listening to my light, listening to all of that, it is about changing patterns. It absolutely is, and you don't always, like the shadow is in the hidden, and so you don't always recognize your patterns. But the more that you do the work, the more you recognize your patterns and get to make a positive choice. So if somebody let's take it down to, for example, I just sit down with your book and I open it up and I am a person who is having really difficult times with knowing who I am and what I want in this world, and so I realize that you know, maybe my solar plexus has something to do with it.

Granddaughter Crow : 17:16

You literally take us through, talking about the solar plexus. What is it here for, what are the colors, what are all of these things? And you kind of walk us through what that aspect of self looks like and wants versus what, maybe your root chakra or your heart. Could you give us a little explanation around? Maybe? What is the process when you walk somebody through each of the chakras? Because you have a very thought out methodical process. I want you to share that and then say what is the difference between doing it like in the solar plexus versus another chakra?

Stefani Michelle: 17:57

well, each chakra holds or aligns or has a frequency to emotions. So all the frequencies around us. It's like having you know playing the piano when you hit a chord, you feel a certain vibration. Well, each chakra has a certain vibration and each emotion and experience has a vibration. So what I'm doing is I'm helping you understand that when you're in your solar plexus, you're dealing with the actionable feelings, you're dealing with the doing feelings, you're dealing with motivation and strength and courage, and when you're in the sacral, you're dealing with creation and painting and the idea part, the generating of those ideas.

Stefani Michelle: 18:49

Right, and so I break it down into the body of where are you feeling? What space are you in right now? Are you unmotivated? Okay, go into your solar plexus. Are you scared? Go. And I mean are you unmotivated? Go into your sacral. Are you scared? Go into your solar plexus. Are you scared? Go. And I mean are you unmotivated? Go into your sacral. Are you scared? Go into your solar plexus. Are you feeling unloved or unlovable? Go into your heart. Are you feeling betray, betrayal or like you can't speak, or honesty. There's so much in the throat chakra about speaking the truth, so go there and put the energy there and use the tools there, are you feeling unsafe in a way that you have no security, you have no foundation. That's your root chakra.

Stefani Michelle: 19:39

With my experience on Sunday, you can really. You know, if you just take that, I was feeling suffocated. It's almost like, well, what chakra was that aligned to? But for me, because I knew it was a matter of seeing the situation for what it was, it was the wisdom. So it was the crown chakra. I needed to see the situation for what it really was and not create a story or not create chaos in the vision in what was happening in front of me. So, because my old story, my old programming, wanted to put a spin on this, I needed to trust the wisdom that was being told to me. And so that is the crown chakra.

Stefani Michelle: 20:32

And in the book I do break it down so that you have, you don't have to open the book and know like, okay, the root is this and the crown is this. It's going to tell you, it's going to explain. So when people ask me, well, how should I read the book, I think the best way to read it is front to back and then pick and choose your own adventure, go in and go. Okay, now I need to work on the heart chakra. Now I need to. So you're getting, cause there's so much, there's so many tools, there's so many activities, there's journal prompts, there's yoga sequences, there's meditations that you literally could read the book 10 times and get a different experience each time. So it would behoove the listener to read it first to get an understanding, and then feel into their body and say what emotion am I experiencing or do I feel is out of balance right now, and then go to that chapter and then really dive into that, lean into that.

Granddaughter Crow : 21:31

I love that. You must be psychic, stephanie, because I was about ready to go on Sunday. What chakra was that? Thank you for that, and that is a really good point to be able to kind of it's self-knowledge. And when you do the shadow work with your chakras, like I mentioned last time, you examine the internal world and you are able to correct what is your past story, why all of those things? Or release like, am I doing this just because I want to be accepted or am I doing this because I love myself? So I love that. That was a great rundown. That's exactly what I was hoping that we'd get those nuggets out of there. So, moreover, so moreover, animals and shamanism, switching it over to Shaka work, like, what do we do when we are like, if I just pick up this book and all I know is, well, it's Granddaughter Crow, I heard about her and Stephanie and Jeffrey Gray off the podcast Now I've been thinking about doing shadow work. Now I've been thinking about doing shadow work.

Jeffrey Gray : 23:06

Okay, so at the beginning of my book, total first half has to do with academic. What is a shadow? You know all of these things and I examine it. But then we get into the second half where we also give a lot of tools. But why do we choose those four animals? Well, I think the first thing with it was you know they were taboo, taboo animals, and this work is considered. You know dark moon work, you know shadow work, all of that. You know dark moon work, you know shadow work, all of that. I think it's.

Jeffrey Gray : 23:26

I love this conversation because what really struck me was the you know, the fact that doing shadow work is so much, there's so much importance of feeling, feeling right. And it's also interesting because you don't, you know, I mean, you don't see into shadows, you feel into darkness, right. Right, you have to feel into darkness because you can't see, and I think that's a clue right there. You know it's like the owl, it sees in the dark. The reason why it sees in the dark is because you know its pupils are able to take in what little light there is and see. So you know, I mean one of the things with the owl I don't want to give any spoilers away. Now the owl is able to tell you.

Jeffrey Gray : 24:21

You know what is blinding you. Well, your emotions are blinding you to some extent. You know what is blinding you Well, your emotions are blinding you to some extent. You know, actually, quite a bit, quite a bit you know, because when you get into the book you'll see how you know your emotions are, the simple phrases you know, clouded. You're clouded by the emotions, clouded by emotions. Your decisions are clouded by the emotions. So you know. I really dig the fact that it is all you know. It's literally all touchy-feely. You know this is how it'll work and it's within yourself, right, so that's yeah.

Granddaughter Crow : 25:09

And it's kind of interesting too, just to clarify. You know, I love that. You say that shadow is dark, so you got to feel. And then the second half is to navigate through it and realize, okay, I'm feeling my way through this, but then I need to recognize what emotion is, and is that emotion something that I need to release through some yoga moves and tea that Stephanie gives in order for me to reset and move forward without that bias of love and hate? And all of that Is that kind of yeah, that's you know.

Granddaughter Crow : 25:46

I mean forward without that bias of love and hate and all of that Is that kind of yeah, that's, you know, I mean, because one side it's like you're feeling the emotion and then the second side is, but then the emotion kind of gets lost, and so it's kind of like you go in there, you feel it, it gives you clues and then you learn how to see deeper, beyond the see deeper beyond that and sometimes that sting is actually feeling, you know, because you follow.

Jeffrey Gray : 26:10

When you once you start following that gut check, then then it's like well, I made, I made the right decision, or I feel good about that decision. I love it.

Granddaughter Crow : 26:21

I love that too, and also another reason why it's so beautiful that we worked with these four animals is because in any scary movie that you watch, if there is a haunted house or somebody just died or you're in a cemetery, you will inevitably hear the crows in the background. You will inevitably hear the crows in the background. Yeah, you know. And the snake? I mean you can go into the snake and go into the, you know, biblical. That's Satan that came down and tempted Eve and then they fell away from God. So the snake is bad. Or, you know, when you look at the owl, there's so much lore around. Oh, they look so alien and oh you know they are death harbingers.

Jeffrey Gray : 27:15

I loved it. There was a program called Res Dogs right, and it's about these. You know native kids on a reservation down in Oklahoma. You know native kids on a reservation down in Oklahoma and every time they showed an owl in that series they'd have a bar, you know, across the side, so it couldn't lock you Lock it out.

Stefani Michelle: 27:35

Oh my goodness.

Granddaughter Crow : 27:37

Taboo.

Jeffrey Gray : 27:37

It's taboo.

Granddaughter Crow : 27:38

Yeah, and then you have like the wolf, which is like the big, bad wolf going to burn your house down. So a lot of these animals do have like that taboo, but it also is that relationship between them. And then more into like the tools that we provide in shamanism. And your shadow is the feather of the raven. How can you work with that as a tool? Or you know it's the morning time, how can you work with that as a tool so we actually break down? Oh, I've got something. You're hearing it here.

Granddaughter Crow : 28:19

First, people, we do journey work meditationsitations, four of them, one per each chapter, one for each of these the wolf and the raven, and the owl and the snake. And because we're like, well, that's really hard for somebody to read a meditation and then go into meditation. How should we do this? We have recorded Jeffrey Gray reading all of these guided meditations for you. It's on Granddaughter Crow YouTube channel and anywhere you get your podcast. It's Journey into Shadows, and we have all of those recorded. It's cut up into chapters and you can do that as well. And coming soon, stephanie is going to have the same thing, where she is going to read because in each of the seven chakras she goes through a meditation as well and we'll get that out there to you guys and I'm really excited about that.

Granddaughter Crow : 29:14

Stephanie, I got to tell you I actually had some feedback from one of the people who is reading shamanism in your shadow. She just listened to the Raven Ingress and portal. Oh my God, you think I mean I would have written the book just to hear what she experienced and how much healing she just went through with just one of them, and so I am just really, really excited about that. Of course, people, this is free. So if you want to just go, well, let me just listen to those and do my own work, go for it. Go for it. Go for it.

Granddaughter Crow : 29:55

It does accompany the book and Stephanie's is coming out here soon, in the near future, and it'll accompany her book. But you can just listen to them and take yourself on your own journey. I absolutely. So we have a few more moments. I would love to, because this is more of like the takeaways and why we approached the book. What one exercise or takeaway would you love to give to the listeners who have or have not yet purchased or read the book from you, so that they can get a little bit more familiar with like. What does this look like in action? Stephanie, take us away.

Stefani Michelle: 30:38

Okay, so before I tell you my little magical trinity of transformation is what I call it, I want to mention that, to me, the most powerful beings are the beings we create taboo around, and so I believe that you're, the animal totems that you chose are very powerful, which is why they pop culture has created so much taboo around it. I just wanted to interject that. Just wanted to interject that, but something that I've written up that if you go on my website and you fill out to get emails from me, I will email out this Trinity of Transformation PDF that I made. It is this I love this exercise so much, and it's basically body, mind and soul, and whenever I am in a space where I really need to move some energy and I need to transform my belief system, my environment, just my life in general, when I need to manifest something, I do these three things all together, and it is body, mind and soul, and so I will think about okay, what is it that I would like to transform, transmute, change, and then I will create a vision, the most wonderful vision I can think of, above and beyond. It doesn't matter, just keep on going. I will fantasize. There is no limit to the fantasy keep on going. I will fantasize there is no limit to the fantasy and then I will move my body.

Stefani Michelle: 32:19

So I have to do something physical whether it's yoga or walking or dancing or punching, you know, depending, it doesn't matter but my body has to be in movement. It's creating that energy kind of battery, right, and so it's creating a battery for the vision. And then I have to feel it. So I have to emotionally feel it. So I'll smile, I'll feel the joy, I'll put on music that has the frequency of whatever the emotion is. If I'm trying to empower myself and take back my power, I'll maybe listen to some female empowerment screaming female music and visualize myself being independent and free, and all this while dancing.

Stefani Michelle: 33:09

So it's the movement, the actual feeling of it, plus the vision. I do those three things and every single time in my life, my entire life, whatever it is that I'm trying to transform, always comes to pass. The key is you cannot. Time is an illusion and the enemy, so you cannot put time on it and you can't think you didn't get there yet. It's still coming if you didn't get there yet. And so you, just you move, you think and you feel, and it works every single time. It's the trinity of transformation.

Granddaughter Crow : 33:50

The trinity of transformation and give us a call out to your website so that people can sign up for your email list.

Stefani Michelle: 33:59

It's wwwprimalhearthealingcom. Perfect.

Granddaughter Crow : 34:04

Do that. You guys. We need all of the Trinity of Transformation that we can get. I'm like, hmm, this sounds like fun, so takeaways, what should we get into as far as exercises or takeaways? Do you have anything you want me to go for? Okay, so one of the things that I would say is that it'll be really easy, you guys. Light a candle and be quiet. See, see what happens. Light a candle and be quiet.

Granddaughter Crow : 34:39

I have been doing that for every morning for the longest time and it's really interesting because it brings me back to like I have all the thoughts and stuff when I wake up in the morning, but it brings me exactly back to what both Stephanie and Jeff and I are saying embodiment. Where am I, what am I feeling, where am I going? Because you can't get to point B unless you know where point A is and where you're at. You know, I often think of like a map and you get that little red arrow that says you are here. A lot of times I don't know where here is, and so I just go, and I think that that's one of those reactive things in this multitasking getting nothing done, rush and get nowhere world that we actually can get caught up in. I've been caught up there. And so now the action and I know it's really simple, but it's so dynamic Light a candle and be quiet. Then you could feel your feelings and you'll know what chakra is coming from and you'll know what chakra it's coming from. You'll be able to sense all of that and move into what you were saying about.

Granddaughter Crow : 36:02

Okay, what does this feel like? Okay, you know what I feel. Like this in the morning. I don't feel like this at night. There's a whole bunch of sensations that come up, but the biggest thing is where are you? If you had a map with a red arrow that says you are here in your life, do you know where that is? And if you don't light a candle and be silent because I have to do it every single morning, because I like Stephanie I mean I love Stephanie, but I, I like Stephanie. I mean I love Stephanie, but I, like Stephanie live my life through a lot of sensory perception where I feel it. I don't always know how to interpret it, and things like that. So that's what I would say. What do you think about that? Is that too harsh for?

Jeffrey Gray : 36:50

No, no, I don't think it's too harsh at all. It's a lot of the work is feeling it. Yeah, you know, even if you can't explain it to somebody, you don't need to explain it. You know you don't have to put English words around it. You don't have to put any words around it. You know you can just feel it and you know when you're doing the work it's. Don't worry about being too up in your head with it.

Jeffrey Gray : 37:20

You know, I mean a lot of, I think, from the shadows. I think you get inspirations up in the head. Sure, you know, I mean you look at, you look at, you know authors and you know, oh, he had to be I'm sure he had to be in a very dark place to write his, write his stuff. And you know, you look, you look a lot at a lot of creativity and it's not necessarily a dark place.

Granddaughter Crow : 37:51

Right.

Jeffrey Gray : 37:51

You know, because you look at, you, look at like what Michelangelo did? You know? You look at what the? You know the artist that carved the marble, I mean some of the, some of that marble work is just, you know, incredible they. But they were inspired, but they were inspired by, you know, their belief system, which they were living, you know. I mean I think it was probably a lot more interior with them. I mean with all the song, you know, the singing, the churches. You look at the old churches and it's like, oh my God, you know these guys are into this to put this kind of work.

Stefani Michelle: 38:32

Am I frozen to you guys? Oh, I froze for a little while. I did not hear the end of that, which is really interesting, but as you were speaking the whole time, I kept thinking. It's about balance. It's about being in the head and being in the body, and some of us who are in the body so much need to go into the head, and some of us who are in the head so much need to go into the head and some of us who are in the head so much need to go into the body. But everything is about balance and that is kind of why I wrote the Trinity of Transformation, because you have to pull in all three of those aspects. And what I did hear of what you both said, I love, completely love, but there was so much time that I froze on my end. It is about balance.

Jeffrey Gray : 39:14

That's what we were talking. I'll watch it.

Granddaughter Crow : 39:16

I'll watch it back after it's posted yeah, and so one of the things is is kind of like not only balance between the head and the heart and the body, which I 100 agree with, it's also the balance between the internal world and the external world, the light and the dark, right you?

Jeffrey Gray : 39:33

know many dimensions.

Stefani Michelle: 39:33

Yeah, the internal world and the external world, the light and the dark Right so many dimensions.

Granddaughter Crow : 39:36

Yeah, the internal world you need to know where you are in order to be a creator. You need to know where you are if you are going to drive your own bus. And until you know where you are and I do it every morning, or even like where am I now, and then you can move into the external world and make those healthy choices, like Stephanie did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jeffrey Gray : 40:02

It helps you find a spot where you can be creative too. You know, I find oh, absolutely.

Granddaughter Crow : 40:10

And creativity, like you were saying, all those great artists, to include the internal artists within the listeners and and us as well, but being able to allow that to become alive and then express it without words. Don't get wrapped up in writing a story around it, but be there now and so anyway, stephanie, yeah, to the end. Is there any last words that you want to say about this topic, about the way you approached it, or any takeaways for the listeners?

Stefani Michelle: 40:43

No, I think we covered it all, but I love that this was today's topic it. You know, as always, it helps me sort my own stuff out when I when we have these conversations. So I love it, thank you.

Jeffrey Gray : 41:03

Absolutely yeah. Do you have any final takeaways or wrap ups? I think we did a very good job with this one. Yeah, it feels, you know, it feels good, you know. I mean, we're all talking about about the feeling and everything, and yeah, I think, I think we did a good job.

Granddaughter Crow : 41:15

I love it and I and I love you, know, stephanie, when you say that these conversations always enlighten what your experience today. That speaks to, how much you engage and show up with an open heart. I also do that and I also learn, and Jeff and I go away from these conversations and we're like, wow, you know there's this and that and and. Listeners. I just really want to say thank you so much. We're going to do another one of these next week. We're recording these in the month of March 2025.

Granddaughter Crow : 41:50

If you miss them, you can go to my website and find the whole series. If you're doing this in 2027 or wherever you're at. Next time we're really going to be talking about more of just the benefits of doing this work and then we are going to do a live on Saturday, march 15th, at 3 pm Pacific, 6 pm Eastern. I do want to just say for the listening audience that is doing this real time with us, I think that there is going to be a time change coming up this Saturday, so if you're in Arizona or something like that, you may need to adjust your clocks for that, but you know that. Anyway, I love you guys. Please like, subscribe, share. No-transcript.