The Initiates Oracle - Egypt's Mystical Mysteries with Marcella Kroll

A scarab on the cover isn’t just pretty design, it’s a symbol of transformation. We’re joined by Marcella Kroll, a psychic medium, occult practitioner, and spiritual counselor, to talk about The Initiates Oracle and why this deck is built for ritual, integration, and real-life rebirth rather than quick fortune telling. We get into how symbol, color, and archetype can speak straight to the body, especially when words fail. 

Marcella shares the story behind the deck’s origins: a 2022 journey through Egypt with a Hermetic magic school, initiations and rituals in sacred temples, and days on the Nile that kept her in a dreamlike liminal space. From that experience, we explore how spiritual travel imprints the nervous system, how creativity becomes a vessel for the ineffable, and why initiations show up as repeated thresholds across a lifetime. 

We also talk practical divination and intuitive development: setting intention, pulling one card, entering the imagery like a portal, journaling what you see, then using the guidebook as support before you integrate the message in daily life. Marcella breaks down her Depth Oracle program and what it means to honor the oracle archetype with ethics, boundaries, self-trust, and community in the digital age. She closes with a grounding reminder that hits hard right now: breathe, stay centered, and pause between reaction and response. 

Subscribe for more conversations on mysticism, oracle decks, liminal space, and spiritual practice, and if this one resonates, share it and leave a review so more listeners can find the work.

Bio: Marcella Kroll is a multi-hyphenate artist, author, and intuitive with nearly 20 years of experience in the fields of divination, creativity, and spiritual empowerment. Known for their grounded presence and visionary insight, Marcella has been a trusted tarot reader and medium for celebrity clients, entrepreneurs, and cultural institutions alike.
 
 They have been featured on the television series Joan Knows Best with Joan Rivers, interviewed on the acclaimed podcast For The Wild, and invited to speak and lead public talks, ritual, s and experiences at venues such as The Lucas Museum and the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles, the Philosophical Research Society (Los Angeles), and UC Davis. In addition to being the creator of several beloved oracle decks and author of multiple published works, Marcella brings a rare blend of depth, humor, and authenticity to every space they enter.

www.marcellakroll.com
 www.instagram.com/marcellakroll

Transcript

Welcome And Setting The Tone

GDC 0:01

Welcome to Belief Being and Beyond with your host, Granddaughter Crow. Hi everybody, Granddaughter Crow here with yet another episode of Belief Being and Beyond. You know, we love to sit down with creators, authors, forerunners that bring to us beautiful wander, asking us to think beyond. And today we are going to be sitting down with Marcella Kroll. And Marcella Kroll's Oracle deck. Oh my goodness, this is gonna be so great. Let me tell you a little bit about Marcella Kroll. With over 25 years of experience as a psychic medium, occult practitioner, and spiritual counselor, her work is rooted in ethical engagement with the unseen. Love that, cultural memory, and reclamation of intuition and intuitive knowledge. I also want to add very much a specialist on liminal space, and I got that because she published a book in 2025, Healing the Liminal. You guys check it out. It's amazing. I just kind of saw it and I'm like, whoa, listen to it. Great, great, great. She is widely recognized for making esoteric traditions accessible, inclusive, and relevant to the modern life. Without further ado, please will welcome Marcella Kroll.

A First Look At The Deck

GDC 1:45

Welcome to the show, my dear.

Marcella 1:47

Hi, thank you so much for having me.

GDC 1:50

Oh my goodness. I've been looking forward to this because, well, one, I got your deck. Jenny's got your deck. Listeners get the deck.

Jenny 2:03

Yeah, so today we have Marcella Kroll with the Initiates Oracle, uh, which came out from Weiser. Uh, Adam Smith is the illustrator, and it's absolutely beautiful. For those of you that can't see it, it's very colorful, very rich in symbology. Um, it's become an instant favorite for me. I've had it for a little while. I got it early, and I think that it gives a very deep reading.

GDC 2:29

Thank you. 100%. I think the first thing that drew me in was just the scarab beetle on the cover. And then you open it up, and you know how you can have that gold edges and the beautiful pictures. This has it all 40 cards along with a beautiful little insightful book that of course has a crow raven on it, which I love, which I love. So in looking at this, it is deeply into Egyptology, hermetics. You have all of the you you have the tree of life, the beauty of it all. And I heard that you went to Egypt, and that's where you found inspiration. Can we just jump back to where this was inspired and your trip to Egypt and how this kind of

Egypt Initiations And Creative Spark

GDC 3:35

started coming up in you?

Marcella 3:37

Oh, absolutely. Um, in December of 2022, um, I took a trip with 22 Teachings, which is a Hermetic magic school in Los Angeles that uh Naha Armadi runs. And um I am faculty there, so I I would I used to teach out of the school occasionally or online or in person when they had um the location, uh, the in-person location. And they organized a trip to do initiations of the Sphinx rituals in the different temples. Nah, had been previously and uh you know really created this experience for students and faculty to really embed themselves in the mysteries and in these sacred locations. So we we did ritual in many temples as well as we sailed on the Nile for four days. Um I got to teach on the Nile twice, which was pretty amazing. I I offered timeline jumping meditations for folks. Um it was quite powerful. Uh but Adam Smith, who is the illustrator, uh, is someone that goes to the school. I had not met him prior. We met on that trip. And, you know, he's an artist, a tattooer, and also just we got along right away and we were paired up quite a bit. We were paired up like to uh, you know, there was 20, 26 of us, I believe, total. Like there was a lot of us, but we would we were paired up quite a bit, but we kind of jokingly thought talked like, oh, we should try and make something. And um, you know, Adam at the time, Adam just knew me from from there. He didn't know my prior experience or things like that. So uh we kind of joke about it now. He's like, if I knew you were already doing stuff, I don't know, I would have been too shy to ask, you know, we should work on something. But it just it felt right. And there's so much that you're taking in while you're there that you don't even process it. Obviously, you don't process it all in the moment, right? You're just kind of every sense is checking in, tapping in. And even, you know, I didn't dream I dreamt the first night I was there. I didn't dream the whole time I was there, which is really rare, rare for me. But I think it's because it was like I was dreaming the whole time I was awake. Yeah, it was just this and being in and out of liminal space and consciousness, and we were traveling all we get up at 2 in the morning, you know, 2 a.m., 3 a.m., 4 a.m. to travel to the next location. And fortunately, we we had a lot of alone time in some of these places. So you're really just absorbing as much as you can, um, you know, emotionally, physically, energetically, it's it's it's quite a lot to take in. So I knew that there was going to be a lot of things that came out of this trip as an artist and an author, like expression-wise. And I feel like I'm still unpacking things from that trip. And the deck was just one of them, you know, it was like one of the things that wanted to be expressed in a way to extend out to others, you know, so they can kind of touch in their touch that energy in their own way. Reach them at a bigger capacity. Because some people would be like, oh, you should do some podcasts talking about it. And I'm like, I can't even most of the I couldn't even put into words a lot of what was experienced. I still have trouble, you know, explaining certain feelings or um mo moments, right? You know, or trying to replay them back. It it's hard to sometimes formulate you formulate

Scarab Wisdom And Rebirth Themes

Marcella 7:45

even words around that.

GDC 7:47

I love that. And yet you brought it to us pictorially, like you brought it to us through pictures, and it worked. However, you did it, it worked because you know, most people don't know, but when I was really entering more of the mysticism and occult exploration, my first touchstone was Egypt and the Egyptian people coming in, newt was there, Sekmet, Isis, all Anubis, all of them, to the degree I had a lot of very, very deep, um, really, really deep understanding of maybe even origin stories or and the scarab. And the scarab, which to me is transformational. Like the scarab, also known as the dung beetle, is known to push the dung and make it completely circular in the direction of the sun, and so then it becomes this sun, it becomes resurrection and rebirth, which is something that I really needed and still do, and now I'm blurring. Hold on, people. See, when spirit comes in, yeah, I go into liminal space and my computer picks it up. But the beauty is is that what I'm seeing with this deck is it's calling us to unfold like a lotus continuously, continuously, you know, think and rebirth. And I'm just beyond the moon about this. And I love that we're bringing this podcast out into the world on August 8th, 888, Lionsgate. Some people say the alignment with Sirius is huge to me. And could you speak a little bit about like am I picking that up right? There is a lot of just resurrection, there's a lot of rebirth energy, like out with the old, in with the new, be present.

Marcella 10:06

Hmm. Well, I I first want to say I love that you brought up uh newt, like first and foremost, uh because I have uh the book of doors here, which I love that deck because I think it's one of the most like well thought out. It's if you've ever wanted to connect into ancient Kemet and the Neturu, who which is the Egyptian pantheon, I always say get the book of doors because it's every deity. And um, but I always pull one in the morning to see who I'm working with, and I pulled newt. So that's why I said I love that you said

Ancestry Threads And Fast Change

Marcella 10:39

that. Um showing this this card of her. Um and the the there's so much transformation that's being asked of us, and it's also a full circle moment, right? For me in this way of when I was little, I was very obsessed with ancient Egypt, and no one could tell me why I would, you know, my favorite animal was a camel. I grew up in Rhode Island in New England, like it was not common for people to be like into camels, and like I would always want to make little, I take shoe boxes and put dirt, be like it's and steal like my mom's Christmas ornaments, like to make the desert, you know, like and to play with. And it's always like through loss of ancestor work and coming full circle and doing all this lineage tracing and being in like, you know, not knowing my biological father's family for years and years and years, it is through this journey that I, you know, one of the layers I found out. I I'll get to what you were mentioning, but it was like this full circle moment felt really important to share, where um I found through my mother's side, seven generations back, there's Coptic, uh uh Coptic and Amazing, like so from Egypt. And I was like, wow, okay, so like there is a connection there, there is a thread, and sometimes we connect much further back than just this immediate, you know, and then following the migration line of how they ended up, you know, in Italy. Like, how did they end up here? And then finding that in that region there was a cult of Isis and the witches of Benevento, because they were my grand grandmother's family, it was 45 minutes from Benevento, and being like, okay, so there are all these through lines that reach out to us, particularly when we are doing this like deep ancestral work that maybe go far further back than we even imagined. Um and you know, I just I think that in this time of where people have been going through transformation for a while, right? Like we see arcs of it throughout, especially in the last, you know, hundred years. There's been many transformations, but particularly this sped up quality of it, right? You know, some people talk about oh 2012, some people, you know, talk about COVID, some people talk about these different points in time. And I do think we are in another acceleration period where, you know, it's interesting to me because I've you know, I feel like I've been kind of yelling about this since prior to 2012, and people thought I was nuts, you know. Um, and to now see like, and then there are people that are kind of not just like waking up, but really redefining how they're showing up for this next iteration of the world, right? Because they're dropping these things that did not, they're like, wait, that has that makes no sense. Like, what is my role in in this next iteration of the world? How do we hold space? How do we do this? And I think that we're just experiencing, you know, in that shedding process and the rebirth of not just who we are as the individual, but who are we like in the web of the world? So I know that's kind of a long-winded answer. I just felt like really like it felt really important to share about the whole, you know, connection and then the closing of the loop, you know, finding out that like I have those relatives from seven generations back and then closing the loop at this point and going, okay, like how do we bring some of that forward into now, some of that wisdom that whether it was lost, suppressed, stolen, erased, or just compartmentalized. And even like with this deck, you know, because some people are, well, it's not just Egypt, there's other things in there, right? Because there's many points of initiation that we go through. And the point of the deck isn't just to kind of go, oh, we're just gonna use it to just like divine kind of mundane things. We can, but ultimately it's about coming back to ritual and these symbols and things that spark parts of us to you know really be embodied here at this time. So I really like the aspect of the deck too, like calling to life initiations, you know, the the things that get us um, you know, that we go through and inspiring ritual by using the deck, not just by like answering one question.

GDC 15:52

Like there's I love that. Yeah, I love that because you wove it back to the ancestors and everything, and then you also spoke about something that I haven't heard articulated in such a way, and I my body agrees, this accelerant. We are accelerating, and for me, you know, the length of time that I have been practicing and studying uh mysticism and spirituality, I still feel like an initiate, I still hold the position of today is a new day, today I am born, and this deck supports it so well.

Intention First Then Let Images Speak

GDC 16:37

And I love it because also in the book you do talk about how to work with the deck, and it's basically that you start with intention, right? You start with an intention, and then you go ahead and pick a card, and then you contemplate and you encourage people to allow the imagery to kind of let that messaging come forth, journal about it, and then of course, handy dandy guide, which I absolutely love, then journal about that, and then you actually say, now integrate it, which I think is so like it's so obvious, but it's the step that I sometimes forget. It's like, oh, thank you, spirit. I feel better. And then it's like, wait, how do you work with that energy in your life? So it really, I love that you bring it back to that ritual because that's exactly what it is. And my goodness, I love it. So, Jenny, what questions do you have?

Jenny 17:45

Yeah, so I've been working uh with the deck, and a couple of things I want to say is I have quite a few uh Oracle and Tarot. Um, but this is one of the few I like that I know of that doesn't give spreads. And so I definitely want to talk about that. But before we get to that, I did pull a card for our interview and I got transcend. Nice. And so far, I feel like we're already transcending some time and lineage and space and ancestry. So um, but what I want people to understand about this in general about cards is they are a way for you, like a portal. Like each card is a portal for you to enter and for you to learn from without a book. Like I love that you're encouraging people to do that first. I always tell people that too, and it's it's very easy for it to be like, oh, well, what does it mean? But the way you actually like learn and integrate is by like entering the imagery. So I just I thought that was like a perfect card for us, but I would like to talk about that a little bit, about how you envision people using the deck.

Marcella 18:56

Um thank you. Yeah, I I think it's really important to like while the interpretations are really, you know, helpful and useful, I've always thought that you should find a way to integrate your own meaning because things the way we the way we tune into things, right? Psychically, energetically, even artistically, like we have our own lens for a reason. And and I think it's important to kind of give yourself permission to not feel regimented by like I I have such a thing with like I have a I'm like tell me what to do, but don't tell me what to do, you know, like vibe like with things. I kind of like you know, let's let's really like open up our own creative and intuitive centers here and and work that muscle, not just like picking up a piece of paper and reading the thing and then never remembering or not forming or bonding with the tools that we're using. So, you know, a big part of that too was like, you know, I've I think a big thing that's empowering when you are like tapping in and connecting to your own intuition and learning to read or divine is developing your own systems. It's like people who play, I would I would tell this to my students. I I taught tarot for teens for 14 years with the LA Public Library. And one of my favorite things about that was like kind of explaining them like, okay, you pick up a guitar and you like take a lesson and that's fine, but like you also can pick it up and you start to find your own rhythm and your own style and your own way, and you just get in that zone and you get in that flow. And it's the same thing with cart like cardamancy and divination. You know, I think you develop a better, obviously, get teachers, get mentors, but then develop your own way, find your own rhythm with it, and you'll develop a more of a personal relationship with the tools that you're using. Right. I'm not anti-learning from other people. I love learning from other people. I'm always learning, but I think a big part of finding like an in and building your own confidence, like as a reader or trusting, because that's the thing too, is like building your self-trust back, is developing your own connection with these tools. So and you know, diving into the imagery and seeing where it pulls you first, right? Isn't that a big part of reading? Noticing patterns and conditions, or oh, look at the similarities, look at what's different. Like that's all part of the message. And if you're just looking to the book, you're not finding you're not like just zooming out and noticing what you're seeing. So I absolutely

GDC 22:00

Love that. And I love that you do that because I think that, you know, in this, like what we were just talking about, in this accelerated time, we need to keep our internal compass intact. We need to keep self-knowledge intact. And we need to trust ourselves and our body and our own intuition and build a relationship with that. Because I think that a lot of times, um, you know, this world or society tells you this is the way to do it. And then all of a sudden we become sheeple. And this way it's like, no, there's a lot of beauty in saying, yes, and this is what I'm sensing, and building that own empowerment within. So yeah, I love that.

Marcella 22:45

I mean, I I feel like fortunate, like maybe it's because I didn't have many. I mean, in some ways it is like a problem, not having like a lot of supervision, uh, but also having to fend for yourself a lot. You know, you had to be your own parent. Yeah. And for me, I like even down to my first tarot deck, like I I got was a gift from my adopted dad's mother, and there was no booklet, there was no one to teach me. And it was just finding my way through that, even was like, okay, I'm just gonna do this, this, you know, find my own way of connecting and communicating and c you know, but also um there's there's some so maybe I've been in some ways because I've always been connected to art too. Like I just I don't know, it's one of those things that in my mind I'm like, you can't take that away from me. And that's one of the things I like to impart when I'm making either decks or books, is like find your own way through it. Yes, get support, yes, get help, but really hear your own voice, hear your own um direction, heed that, trust that, you know. Um and yes, you know, I'm I'm blanking, but like this is yeah, it's like it's hard to get we get start getting into all these liminal spaces, right? With this work, and it's like 500. I just like pulled it like the deck open and got there it is. That's hard.

GDC 24:20

I'm trying, guys. Oh, is this it? No, wait, oh this is another beautiful one. No, actually, that is it, isn't it? Yeah, transcend. Yeah, you have it, yeah. Yeah, I was just playing around, but yeah, liminal spaces, guys. You know, liminal spaces.

Marcella 24:35

I'm like, who are we on the card today?

GDC 24:38

Right. It's transcend, transcend. So then basically, like in practice, you can be new, you can be an expert, you can all of it, and um sit down with this Oracle deck and actually kind of learn from it. So just keying off what Jenny said, is then how what does that look like in like action? That you would just like how does what does that look like in action, how to work with your deck? Like, would you say light a candle, sit quiet, pull like what does that look like?

Real Life Ritual With The Cards

Marcella 25:26

So it looks like a couple of things. I mean, um, and and I'll just tell you like ways that I've worked with it. You know, either I I have a practice where I do kind of a card of a card a day where I will sit with my morning coffee and pull a card and kind of see what the energy is. Um, I've used this deck to like co-create classes and things in the way of when I first got my sample deck um for it, and I like sat, I had my first retreat that I taught in February, and I received my deck in like December, and I was like, I sat with it and then I was looking at kind of organizing the retreat, and I said, you know what, I'm gonna collaborate with the deck on this. And as I broke down the days, because we had three days together, I would have a morning, you know, activity, meditation, a ritual, and I would pull a card for the theme or what we would be working on. And that was really how I sat and like got to really even re-experience my deck after not, you know, obviously you you write, you create, you send it off, and then you don't see it for a while. And you know, so you're kind of like, what happened? Um so coming back to it, it felt like, oh, like I can outline like the teaching and the lessons and the understanding of what rituals we're gonna do based on the cards. Um I have had my, you know, I've I I started a depth oracle training program this year where I'm teaching people how to connect to being the Oracle as an archetype. And you know, one of the assignments is like, you know, for my students, their final practicum is to develop like to share something with me as the depth, like as the oracle. And one of my students with this deck created a you know, a spread that was for a spell. Like it's kind of like, you know, what is the spell? Like this is the spell, what I'm trying to bring in. What is the spell for? What is the offering? You know, what what do I need to, you know, invite in to support me? You know, she had all of these kind of ways of working with it. Um I wish I could say I was really disciplined enough to always like sit down and like light some incense and a candle. Um, but sometimes it doesn't look like that because there's chaos kind of in my home or you know, in my life. Like right now, my dog is having a meltdown behind me. Like, um, hopefully you can't hear her. She's she's like, she was scratching over there for a minute, but um she wants to get up on the oh, yes, oh adorable.

GDC 28:09

If you guys are listening to this, jump over to the YouTube channel. We've got a beautiful little puppy trying to jump up on the so adorable.

Marcella 28:19

She was asleep and she got all excited with the the card talk.

GDC 28:23

Yeah, with the energy that we're throwing

Inside The Depth Oracle Program

GDC 28:26

down. Yeah, please continue to talk a little bit more about the depth oracle apprenticeship and yeah, and and what that looks like because I think that you have another cycle opening up, like registration opening up September 1st, and they can find you guys can find that www.marcellacroll.com, follow on IG, and yeah, tell us a little bit about if somebody wants is interested in that.

Marcella 28:54

Sure. So uh I I did full, I was doing readings full-time, like psychic tarot mediumship readings um since 2009. And I over the last couple of years I've felt pulled pulled to do like away from it in this way of like, and I also, you know, feeling pushed by my guides and like nudge nudge, like you need to be doing more teaching, really resisting it. And then finally I was like, okay, fine, I'll do it. And so this year I pivoted to creating this depth oracle program, which is a 10-week program where we really build from the foundation up, and in that how to be the Oracle, the Oracle as an archetype. I'm so sorry. Let me fine. Please you can leave that there. All right. Um that's her. She needs to be high up. She's like, yeah. So yeah, the Depth Oracle program just kind of, you know, I really wanted to offer something that was very much a starting point for people who whether or not you made this a profession, it it doesn't, and it doesn't, you don't have to be a professional reader or anything like that. It's not about card reading, it's about being and honoring the archetype of the oracle. And the ways we support our our own coming back to building intuitive uh trust and confidence. There's it's a 10-week program. We meet for two hours a week. Each week, there's a different kind of topic or mode, uh, modality, and then um it you also have like suggested homework. I never make it mandatory because I want don't want people to feel pressured by it and I want it to feel organic, but and then I have a guidebook that's like journal prompts for the week, like to help support you. But everything from you know, learning how to read energy signatures to holding space without fixing is a is a big is one week, you know, or you know, boundaries and ethics, and then also, you know, in the beginning, I like to talk about the history of oracles throughout history, you know, like who, where, what, you know, how is this a thing, you know, throughout time and in many traditions, and then just so you have an un understanding of like how deep this is rooted, you know, in every uh continent, in every culture, and bringing it back to a place of really so more people can hold space in ways that feel for their communities. It's not just me with the one-on-one. It's like I've done it's it's you taking that wisdom and putting your own application to it and being able to hold the space in the way that you need to. Now, I've had TV writers, I've had other readers, I've had animal communicators, um, you know, artists, photographers, like not just like tarot readers, like it's literally for anyone who's wanting to connect with this piece of themselves and do like feel more like aligned and confident with whatever they're offering, you know, so getting a lot of that trust back. Um, we even talk about you know, technology and being an Oracle in the digital age and what that looks like. We talk about psychic self-defense, building a heart-led practice. Um, you know, there's there's many things that we cover in the 10 in the 10 weeks. So I've offered it as a one-to-one, but also as a group. We did the spring cohort this year, so I'll be opening up the fall cohort um September 1st, and we'll start mid-October through the end of the year.

GDC 32:51

So wow. I I am so excited, and people can find out more again at your website, MarcellaCroll.com. I love that because honoring the archetype of the oracle, it just kind of opens up a space within my mind of reverence, of you know, being a little different, holding space without being fixed. I mean, come on. And I'm also is it something that people can do in person or is it online or both?

Marcella 33:30

Or right now it's online, it's just online, yeah.

GDC 33:34

Accessible, yeah.

Marcella 33:35

Yeah, like and that was really cool to be able to bring people from all over, you know. I have I, you know, the the last group we had like Mexico City, Berlin, US, like all different places, you know, being able to come together and um, you know, have that shared experience, you know, that that's felt really good to be able to, because we are, you know, we want community, right? A lot of people want community or they speak to community, but it's very hard, you know, um, with the way the world is to have community right now. And people have kind of confused the word community with commerce or different things, and you know, it's like trying to get everyone to really understand what that is. So the beautiful thing about it I've found has been able to like when I see other people that like they've come they've met through the class and they're still connected or like they're getting to kind of support everyone's been really supportive of each other, and I think that's something I can feel like I feel really good that like I've I've been able to draw people who are really like they're they're here i in this way of really wanting to just not just like be uh a fixture, but they want to really connect and they want a better world. Yeah, and they really act on it, on that.

GDC 35:04

So we're all about community. Jenny C. Bell also has our Coven community online and is a community builder as well. So what else, Jenny? What else do we want to? I mean, I'm like all floaty. I'm like we're transcending today. We're transcending today. Where are we in?

Jenny 35:27

Well, I wanted to share that. I first heard of Marcella through my friend Ashley Baudell. She has the podcast Big Crystal Energy, which is a favorite podcast of mine. And she went to a retreat of yours, and it was and we were speaking about initiates, right? And we're speaking about that, and she absolutely loved that. And so that was very transcends for her, right? Like it was very like a beautiful um moment for her. So I'd like to hear a little bit about like you as a teacher. So you've done so much. So we're talking to someone that created this card deck, but you have other card decks in your books, and now you're teaching people about that they are the oracle, right? And how to step into that energy, but you've also done so many other things. If you could just share a little bit about your background with people, I think that they'll be as blown away as we are.

Becoming A Teacher Without The Hierarchy

Marcella 36:20

Thank you. Yeah, I oh my gosh, yeah, that retreat was the retreat that I used the deck to outline. It was um uh the altar within retreat, and it was in in New Mexico, and you know, really about being the offering, you know, like being the offering, not just like the, you know, this in and how to show up as the offering. Um there I'm it's it's really interesting because I never thought I would be teaching, right? I always imagined like, first of all, I never imagined living past 18, honestly, to be honest. Like it was not on my it was not on my radar to exist this long. And you know, really magic and tarot and astrology and all those things really saved my physical life in, you know, at 18 and um moving out of like, you know, the it didn't like fix me. It definitely gave me a path forward though. And then, you know, over the years, you know, I I made art, I've been very fortunate enough to make like to be an artist and make art for a living. And I've worked in some interesting like artistic spaces and places, and um getting to into my work really started first as like, oh, I'm just gonna do this to like kind of like by word of mouth or by supplementing my income. But I worked at the public LA Public Library, I worked at one of the branches uh as a messenger clerk for a little while. This was back in like um 200 uh seven and 2008, and more 2008. But the young adult librarian was like, I knew I read tarot cards and was like, would you ever want to teach this for like the teens? And I was like, I don't think they want that, you know? And she was like, No, they do. Yeah, because this is like an echo park. I was like, these kids are gonna like, they're gonna rip me apart, they're not gonna care. She's like, no, no, just do it. So I did a presentation, and then it kind of just like at the same time, that was when um I started, you know, doing more word of mouth readings, like again, and then I was had been working another job, and I, you know, I lost that job, and then the library was doing layoffs because they had to like anyway, I was like, okay, but the the program stayed, they put it in the system, and so I kept getting called to come teach like different branches, and then I started doing readings at a metaphysical bookstore, and then I went full-time, and then I was like, Well, maybe I'll try and teach that class here, and then it just kind of I was like, okay, like so. Classes started kind of evolving, or people would be like, You should teach this, and I would try it, and um, you know, anything from like intro to tarot, intro to Oracle, and my own personal like world and healing started developing, and then I got into teaching past lives and then doing this. So it's just really been this thread of my own personal growth and healing, and then wanting to share that with others, um, especially, you know, then my own journey with finding my bio dad's family and that history and teaching people how to work with themselves, uh, you know, and then during, you know, lockdown and stuff like teaching online, that kind of developed like through that time because we were home. And people were like, Oh, like I wanna work with my youngest self, you know, and I it just it just kept evolving. Um, and I definitely avoided you know doing any kind of training program because I always am the student, and I'm like, who I'm always I'm not an expert, who am I to like teach this? You know, I always feel this like imposter thing. I'm also um, you know, neurod I'm autistic. I have uh sometimes teaching like there's pressure and things like you know, there's lots of things I thought I couldn't do. Um but it just it really stems from like this personal development, you know, and being like, well, if this has helped me, maybe it can help someone else. So that's been a lot of the evolution of it. And then even down to like making decks, you know, my first deck I made Sacred Symbols, the first edition. I made that in essentially 2012, but I printed it in 2013 and self-published, you know, after that, like multiple decks and zines, and then until things got started getting more into the publishing world. But like even the publishing world didn't want anything to do with what I was making. I tried. I tried. Even like I was like, they're like, no, it's not really, it's it's not really. So I was like, okay, I guess I'm supposed to just do this, you know, and trusting that even though that world was rejecting me, that didn't mean that the world didn't. I always said, I'll do this until the world doesn't want it anymore.

GDC 41:32

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Marcella 42:05

You know, and that's kind of what happened, like, particularly with Sacred Symbols, the money would just come. I would, you know, like obviously I went through a lot of trial and error with like, you know, printing and redeveloping and putting out different uh versions of it, and you know, now we're that came out in 2013, we're now what 2026, I'm on the fourth edition, and it is published by a publisher now, but it's like there's all because I just you know what if the world if if it's not supposed to be here, it won't be. You know. So I don't know, it's just been like this really wild evolution. I feel like as a teacher, um I like being like with the students, like I don't ever like that hierarchy of like I I know this and I know that. I'm always like, let's talk, let's have a chat. You know, even with my students, like when we're doing one-to-one, I would say, I don't, I don't like teaching at anyone. Right. Because I'm always learning too. Like you're showing me something as much as maybe I'm I'm just sharing this thing with you. Like, and I've had friends say, you know, like I my goal is to just be like the weird auntie, you know, like I love it, right? And be like, let me just share this weird thing that I found, you know, like like and maybe maybe it helps. Maybe it helps someone else feel more like connected to themselves and they can put their unique magic out in the world. I never want anyone to kind of parrot or mimic or like think that my way is the way, because I'm again, I'm I'm a human, I mess up all the time. I that is why there's four incarnations of sacred symbols, you know, because evolution and I think Yeah, and I think that we should expect that of our teachers as well, you know.

Why Quiet Can Be More Powerful

GDC 44:00

I love that. So I have a question for you based on the evolution and the iterations and everything. What is something you've changed your mind about in the last five years and what caused that change?

Marcella 44:21

That I had to be loud to be heard, I think. That's that's something I've been thinking about a lot lately, actually, especially in like the world and the times we live in, because I have been reflecting a lot on the last 10 years, especially. Um because this September I will actually I'll have 10 years sober. And my life was very different. Thank you. 10 years ago, I, you know, even like just prior to being sober, I was very loud online, I was very much um vocal, like activists doing my like doing things, putting together fundraisers, doing all the things, but very much like vocal and and loud all over the internet. And that has shifted for me a lot.

Jenny 45:15

Wow.

Marcella 45:16

Um, not because I don't care, because some people will mistake it as you're not doing this anymore. So you're complicit or you're this, but what I've learned is that something for me is I've had to really do a lot of stuff without eyes on it. And not just because of the physical safety, because that was one of the things that people don't understand, like the death threats that I received, the people showing up, people don't they'd be like, Oh, I don't, oh, really? Do they really do that? And I'm like, you want to see this DM of this person's photo of my street? They don't know where I live, but they certainly are trying to find me. Like, that's a lot of things that I've had to like kind of really renegotiate in a way that like I I didn't understand the value of also being a little more incognito with certain things or not being solid, and there are gonna be people that misunderstand you or don't want you to change, or they're gonna make assumptions and you have to kind of just it was too painful try it's been too painful trying to explain myself. Um but then I look at also like my you know, my own lineages and history and look at like what my relatives went through, like you know, as I started to know my biodad's family and where they come from and the things that they had to go through, and it was dangerous to be loud, you know, but it didn't mean they weren't doing anything, you know. So I think there's there is also I'm like there is I'm glad there are people that are loud and out there and doing their thing, but I think as you change and as you grow or even age, it's not appropriate for me at this time in my life, it's not the best use of my energy, and it's actually a liability. Right. So I think yeah, there's just this shift in this thing for me, um, especially with the 10-year span.

GDC 47:41

I love that you know, I you're speaking such a wonderful message that I can also relate to this understanding of what how did you put it? You don't have to be loud in order to be heard. You don't have to be loud in order to be heard, people. But if you're loud like me, sometimes, sometimes I'm just loud, but you don't have to do that in order to be heard. A lot of times in the silence is where you actually hear your own voice, and then what you say is actually very, very authentic. I think that that's a wonderful message in our transcendence podcast that we're doing. And it's liberation, my dear. You're liberating a lot of the people who are out there thinking, well, maybe I gotta be louder, faster, stronger, da-da-da-da-da. And you're giving them like not necessarily, not necessarily, you know. I really appreciate that.

Marcella 48:42

Well, I think it's like a matter of like, you know, also too, like you you thwart your own growth sometimes by tell telling your, you know, everyone what you're up to. Um or it's not even that. It's like sometimes you just need time to process it. I take a long, it's interesting. I used to think I was like a fast processor because I would get things done and I was like, no, you're just like you have a lot of trauma, a lot of CPTSD, so you're just getting shit done. Like you're not actually processing. You're right, you're like, you're just doing the thing to get it out of the way. But for me, I it takes me a long time, like when I'm really thinking about it, because then I'm like, why like years later, I'm only now getting to this, right? I thought I was over it. No, you just like you just got louder than the thing, thinking it would drown it out or make it go away, avoiding your own stuff, right? Because I can go help, I can go do this, right? And it's like, no, you're just creating more wreckage. And also like other there are other people who are better that at this than you are, like, because I like there's like it was not a you know, um I I I think that it takes a lot of self-reflection. Um and you even though I'm not the best at having self-compassion, but like I'm not again, like I said, I don't like this in this life, I don't want to be a liability any more than I have been for people who need support or things like that. And I want people to learn how to not be spun out in their rage that they don't hear what they need to hear or they they they they're distracted.

GDC 50:37

Distracted.

Marcella 50:38

Right. Yeah, yeah. So and you know, some people and again, there's there is a time and a place for it, and there is sacred rage, and there is like a fire, and there are things that yes, you should be fighting for, and you should be loud and bold about. I'm not saying hide yourself, I'm just saying knowing when it becomes an asset, and also not disconnecting from yourself because you're so inflamed.

GDC 51:07

I love that because it is a cycle, and sometimes we are supposed to wake up and do this, and then other times we need to rest. And if you guys don't know where you're at in the cycle, pick up the Oracle deck and then pull one and see where you are in your own cycle of growth because the beauty, yes, the beauty is. I know I got this little one.

Marcella 51:36

Oh, nice.

GDC 51:37

I don't even know what it says because I'm backwards. Oh, well, I'll take it. But the the beauty is that I think that it's also about honoring the cycle and the seasons when it's time to do this, do that, and don't just keep going, going, going. Sometimes it is time to slow down. And I really feel that, you know, I'm a cancer son with a Leo moon, right? And so I want to do everything really big, and yet I need to hide afterwards, you know, and so I do need that time of processing. And and you spoke straight to my soul because I'm like, oh, I can get things done, I get it. Just show me an overview, I'll just get it. And now I'm like, but in in this time in my life, in this point in my life, I'm like, you know, if I take a minute, if I take a beat, if I take a pause, so much more of this lotus opens and reveals itself. So much more of the initiation, my new initiation is unfolding itself. So, Jenny, it looks like we're getting close to our time. What else do we have?

Jenny 52:51

Well, um, we have our final question.

What Lies Beyond And Final Grounding

Jenny 52:54

Oh. Which is kind of an initiation question when you really kind of think about it. Yeah, so we are belief being in beyond, and so we always like to ask our guests what you think lies beyond.

Marcella 53:10

I'm like, beyond what?

Jenny 53:12

Okay, we even end it.

Marcella 53:14

It's up to you. It's up to you. What lies beyond? I mean I'm like, this is like an existential. Because I'm always like, I'm like, beyond what? Beyond what? I'm like, um I think what lies beyond is whatever you think is waiting for you. Honestly, I mean in in some ways, um, you know, some people ask me, like, oh, do you believe in you know, like life after death, reincarnation, things like that. I immediately go to like the macabre, right? Like the life after death stuff of, you know, and I think that there's like it's whatever you believe is gonna happen. I I I'm at this juncture of my life that I I really don't want to reincarnate. I want to just like be in a celestial like orb in in the sky, like in the game, can we be done? Um I just want to float around like and not in a ghost haunty way. I just want to be like out in the galactic kind of sphere of things. But you know, if if I could say like anything about just that there's a spark of hope that keeps coming up for me that like I have this spark of hope that there's always something to look forward to, and even in the beyond there is that. Um yeah, I oh wow, this one really stumps me. Um, and this is really stumping me in that way, you know? I'm like because I'm like beyond, beyond. Yes, of course, there's other things out there that are not human. Yes, the beyond, like in the galactic. Um, yes, there's like different ways of life after death. Um gosh, I infinite, infinite, and I think if anything, it can be anything we want it to be. And there's that's that's the the beauty of it, of the idea of what's beyond the beyond.

GDC 55:42

I I love that because like from this point of view, I'm just watching you process and I'm like, are we getting another book out of this? Is there another deck coming our way called The Beyond? You know, I absolutely love to be sitting with this for a while.

Marcella 56:03

That's gonna that's gonna like like earworm for a while.

GDC 56:07

Well, yeah, you know, and that I and I think that that's why the this show, right? And that's why this understanding, I mean, it's almost for me, it's just this concept of there is more. I mean, in so then beyond what? Beyond this moment, there is another moment, you know, that beyond our life. What do you got there, Jenny?

Jenny 56:31

I was just showing the as above, so below card. There's so much beyond in the card deck. Like there's so much like beyond our mundane, basically.

Marcella 56:42

Well, it's like that there's that tarot deck that's like the it's a this it's some tarot deck that's based on the rider weight, but it's like what happens after the first image. Have you seen this? It's like it'll be like you know, the five of cups, but then it's like it's supposed to be the next scene. Interesting. So like there's like a deck, it's kind of like that, and I think of that too with this deck. It's like there's more than just like the the image that you're seeing, like there's other things that can kind of come like what's next, what's the next chapter, you know?

GDC 57:14

Oh, I love it. You guys, we're sitting down tonight with Marcella Kroll and all of the wanderer, the liminal space, um, the beautiful card deck, as well as make sure you check out Marcella Kroll.com. Is there any last message that you would like to leave the listeners with? It doesn't need to be profound, but I don't think you can be anything else but profoundly beautiful and authentic. And I appreciate that about you.

Marcella 57:50

Oh, I just thank you so much for having me. Thank you both for the space that you create in your, you know, in your practices and sharing that, you know, with others and your community. I think the the only thing I'll say is, you know, especially with the fiery nature of the summer months, is just keep breathing deeply, keep your cool, and remember to like stay grounded in your center. Um, I think one of the biggest things we could all really benefit from is pausing between our reaction and our response. I think that's the only thing I could really impart out there. Pausing between the reaction and the response.

GDC 58:42

I love that. I there's so many jewels in here. Thank you so much, you guys. Thank you for tuning in to yet another episode of Belief Being and Beyond. Make sure you follow Marcella Kroll, pick up this amazing deck and learn ritual. Also, check out the website because it's opening up the Depth Oracle Apprentice and honoring the archetype of the Oracle. Thank you guys. Like, subscribe, share this. Let's grow, get the algorithm so that this show and this information can get to the people that desire it the most. I love you guys, and we'll see you on the flippity flip. Thank you for listening to another episode of Belief Being and Beyond. Please subscribe and share with whomever would enjoy this podcast. And please leave us a review. We really, really appreciate that. For more about Granddaughter Crow, Granddaughter Crow.com. There you can learn about her classes, sessions, and all of her books. And for more about Jenny C. Bell, please visit Jenny CBell.com where you can learn about her books, her classes, and her our coven community. Thank you so much for listening.